tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post3748757678526438059..comments2023-06-09T06:55:58.165-07:00Comments on IR Rumor Mill: Job Market Discussion ThreadUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-79908109626940165972007-12-01T18:04:00.000-08:002007-12-01T18:04:00.000-08:00Time for another reminder. We have a policy--which...Time for another reminder. We have a policy--which hasn't been perfectly enforced this time around--of not posting rumors of what specific candidates have offers <B>unless</B> that information comes directly from a candidate.<BR/><BR/>This is what we wrote last time around:<BR/><BR/>"Our current policy is not to disclose offers unless that information comes directly from the candidate in question. Job offers involve sensitive information exchanged between schools and prospective employees. A candidate often negotiates with a school over the terms of the contract. Other schools may have reasons to adjust their searches in light of a job offer. These and other reasons strike us as sufficient warrants for treading carefully in this area."<BR/><BR/>We can't control such information on the wiki, of course, which accounts for some of the postings here.<BR/><BR/>If you have thoughts on this matter, we're about to put up a thread on the subject.IR Rumor Millhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18053105827246140018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-77736409247876069942007-10-23T12:02:00.000-07:002007-10-23T12:02:00.000-07:007.25 re Cornell seach:I know from members of the d...7.25 re Cornell seach:<BR/><BR/>I know from members of the department that four job talks have already been scheduled for the two IR positions at Cornell.... Don't mean to crush your hopes though :(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-30614363039134770222007-10-22T19:25:00.000-07:002007-10-22T19:25:00.000-07:00anyone with the details on the Cornell IR search? ...anyone with the details on the Cornell IR search? There's still only one name up there on the board, and it's been a while since it was posted...<BR/><BR/>(someone hoping against hope for a call)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-81107318443390354772007-10-17T08:39:00.000-07:002007-10-17T08:39:00.000-07:00Response from 11:01: I'm simply extrapolating from...Response from 11:01: I'm simply extrapolating from what has happened in other internet-intensive fields: physics, computer science and linguistics are usually at the top of the list, and I've worked a fair amount with people in the latter two fields. They increasingly regard journals as archival -- the cutting edge is on the web.<BR/><BR/>Once the mechanisms are in place -- some form of assigning reputation to a document -- that has the potential of being *hugely* better than the current refereeing system. Three reviewers, if you are lucky. Qualified and without axes to grind, if you are lucky. Comments are typically made 12 to 18 months before the piece appears in print, whether or not you are lucky. Web can potentially solve all of these problems (not suggesting I have the magic formula yet, but it will be solved, just as Google and eBay solved comparable problems).<BR/><BR/>And of course just because something has taken off in physics, computer science and linguistics doesn't mean it will take off in political science. But that's the way I'd bet: we won't be first-adopters, but we will get there. To a certain extent, we are already seeing this in the movement to the Web, rather than the formal structures of the ICPSR, for data sets.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-78839735491643630452007-10-16T18:51:00.000-07:002007-10-16T18:51:00.000-07:0011:01 is excessively sanguine about posting papers...11:01 is excessively sanguine about posting papers on the web. I don't deny all the downsides of print journals cited in that post, but there are also problems with papers on the web, including the lack of of quality control. Even if your work is good, the web is a crowded venue. Posting something on your website is a good idea for personal PR, but don't kid yourself about how many people will actually read the things you post there. There is also no centralized outlet for working papers in political science comparable to the NBER working papers in economics. Come to think of it, most of those eventually appear in print, too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-63715873215166982832007-10-16T14:08:00.000-07:002007-10-16T14:08:00.000-07:00There's still something to be said for having thre...There's still something to be said for having three scholars review your work and declare it worthy / not worthy, right? If we take out the gatekeepers, how do we decide what to look at when examining a topic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-42164852656763924632007-10-16T11:01:00.000-07:002007-10-16T11:01:00.000-07:00Conference papers not bound for journals: This ass...Conference papers not bound for journals: This assumes that the ink-and-paper journal remains the dominant form of scholarly communication. Extension of your vita, undoubtedly. Help you get annual "merit" increases: probably still the norm in most places. <BR/><BR/>In terms of actually making your reputation (and, as a consequence, outside offers): in plenty of disciplines (and a few, though not many, sub-fields in political science) you want something readable and linked on the web. Conference papers are great for this; journals are often next to useless due to <BR/><BR/>a. publication delays<BR/><BR/>b. the artificial 35 +/- 5 page length of the medium<BR/><BR/>c. the tendency for reviewers and editors, often as not, force a paper into a lowest common denominator, removing a lot (not all) of the interesting material. Which is probably closely linked to the fact that most published papers are never, even once, cited. <BR/><BR/>Wouldn't suggest the web as a tenure strategy -- dead trees still rule in that domain -- but I think that's the direction things are moving. And again, I'm not at all suggesting political science is in the lead here, though it is probably not horribly far behind either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-65907152777533694882007-10-15T13:50:00.000-07:002007-10-15T13:50:00.000-07:00Hmm, it looks like IPE dominates this year's crop....Hmm, it looks like IPE dominates this year's crop. Anyone have any ideas why? I know that for a number of years, schools have been searching for IPE-ers. Did grads take this into account?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-56416831780843060792007-10-13T17:09:00.000-07:002007-10-13T17:09:00.000-07:00Again, on conference papers rising from the dead -...Again, on conference papers rising from the dead -- I often use conferences as a way of gaging whether there is a market for an idea. Far worse than investing time on conference paper is wasting time on an article that no one wants.<BR/><BR/>And the "why would you waste time" thing doesn't really seem to get at the issue. There were how many papers at APSA this year? Say 3 per panel (lowballing) and according to APSA over 700 panels. Roughly 2000 papers, not counting roundtable or state-of-the-field panels -- and of course many/most panels had 4 papers.<BR/><BR/>2000 papers in 2007. A like number in 2006. Assume the same in 2008.<BR/><BR/>For argument's sake, divide by 4 -- IR, CP, AP, Theory (writ large).<BR/><BR/>500 papers per field. Are there enough journals to print 500 articles a year, every year, even recognizing that there's a lag in both transformation of the paper into an article and the final appearance of the final product?<BR/><BR/>My guess is that a lot, perhaps most, of the papers that are presented die unlamented deaths, rendering the "conference quality" discussion somewhat moot.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-64736792597258577752007-10-13T16:21:00.000-07:002007-10-13T16:21:00.000-07:00I'm going to suggest that the moderator(s) remove ...I'm going to suggest that the moderator(s) remove this thread. The relevant action is taking place on the other rumor thread and the big board. Comments here seem to be all over the map, and mostly about pet peeves (ISA issues, etc.).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-63878917022041179792007-10-13T12:25:00.000-07:002007-10-13T12:25:00.000-07:00Moved from other thread: Anonymous said... SO, ...Moved from other thread:<BR/><BR/> Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> SO, is it safe to assume that schools contact all candidates to be interviewed on the same day? Such that, once one name appears on the big board, you might as well cross that school off your list...<BR/><BR/> *******************<BR/><BR/> Not necessarily. Peoples' schedules, time zone differences, laziness, etc. might all affect whether all of the candidates are called on the same day.<BR/><BR/> Also, schools have sometimes been known to do "B-lists." That is, they'll initially interview their top two, but have a B-list to go to if they don't get (or wind up not wanting) one of those top two.<BR/><BR/> 11:29 AM, October 12, 2007<BR/> Delete<BR/>Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> SO, is it safe to assume that schools contact all candidates to be interviewed on the same day?<BR/><BR/> No. I once received an interview offer in September, and the other candidates weren't chosen until sometime in November.<BR/><BR/> 12:12 PM, October 12, 2007<BR/> Delete<BR/>Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> The only thing i've ever learned to be mostly true about the job market is never assume anything. Just because someone else gets an interview doesn't mean the job is closed, just because you get a call doesn't mean your candidacy is being taken seriously. There are a thousand internal political things going on in these search committees, each one more dysfunctional than the next.<BR/><BR/> (honestly, how we , as a profession is a disgrace. i can't think of another profession outside the academy that coudl get away with this nonsense)<BR/><BR/> 6:50 AM, October 13, 2007<BR/> Delete<BR/>Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> Regarding 6:50am, well, hmmm, take a look at Imperial Life in the Emerald City and other books on the occupation of Iraq to see hiring decisions that, ahem, were less than optimal.<BR/> You can find hiring processes and decisions in all kinds of professions that lead to bad outcomes. We are not unique--we just know the bad processes that we witnessed, not the ones that lead policemen who lose it and kill six people, the accountants who bless Enron or subprime mortgates, the folks who run the reconstruction of New Orleans, etc.<BR/><BR/> Ours is not the only business where the sausage making process is, when observed, not entirely pleasant.<BR/><BR/> 8:34 AM, October 13, 2007<BR/> Delete<BR/>Anonymous said...<BR/><BR/> Isn't there some other more appropriate website at which 8:34 a.m. can rail against the Administration and the government?<BR/><BR/> 11:54 AM, October 13, 2007<BR/> Delete<BR/>IR Rumor Mill said...<BR/><BR/> 8:34, in our view, provides perfectly reasonable examples of dysfunctional hiring processes outside of academia. But we also understand 11:54's concern that this not devolve into some sort of a left-right thing.IR Rumor Millhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18053105827246140018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-47867581657636614242007-10-13T12:09:00.000-07:002007-10-13T12:09:00.000-07:00On the conference paper v. publication question. I...On the conference paper v. publication question. In a job packet, when I see a relatively large number of different conference papers, but a relatively small number of (or no) publications, then I begin question the ability of the applicant. <BR/><BR/>That is, s/he seems to have figured out how to write an abstract for invitation to a conference (or maybe its a poster), but not yet how to publish in a journal. And the latter is what gets him/her tenure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-4225025125635578262007-10-11T22:21:00.000-07:002007-10-11T22:21:00.000-07:00My recent resolution to stop allowing myself to be...My recent resolution to stop allowing myself to be baited by blog posts now melts in the face of the ISA/APSA discussion. Full disclosure: I've been a program chair, section chair, a governing council member or a combination of each in both organizations over the course of the past 14 years. First, it should be noted that the quality/quantity discussion is one that we would all consider unacceptable from our methods and stats students. True, university presidents and their admissions officers use this as a way of hyping USN&WR rankings. They do so with smoke and mirrors--chase more applicants not qualified in order to claim greater selectivity when they make their final cut. Conferences are different animals. They are slated section by section. Topicality and available slots don't always match up. Some years it is feast and some years it is famine; you may be giving back panels you can't fill with quality or you might be offering poster sessions to very good proposals. In my experience, ISA is also more enthusiastic about co-sponsoring which increases opportunities. Also, bear in mind that ISA is interdisciplinary. A proposal that a "pure" political scientist might consider weak and methodologically suspect may be something first rate from another field with at last a modicum of info we political scientists should be hearing. Old timers will also tell you that the ISA ranks started growing Back In The Day when it was clear APSA was stressing the "A" rather than the "PS" in panel numbers. In my observation, this is still somewhat true. For example, available security panel slots in ISA have sometimes been four times greater than in APSA. As for general organizational and specific conference admin, there are equal portions of "great" and "nightmare" tales for both. Finally, another semi-related knee jerk response. For some administrators trying (or required) to keep a hand in, a conference paper is one of the few annual options to do so--especially when your bosses say attendance is important to your institution but the bean counters will not pay unless you present. After my parole from ten years in admin, I had a huge pile of conference papers in my "someday" writing file.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-70182135583341765992007-10-11T19:28:00.000-07:002007-10-11T19:28:00.000-07:00i concur with 11:56. waiting affords one a sense o...i concur with 11:56. waiting affords one a sense of what it must be like to be on death row.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-43284352222148380032007-10-11T09:20:00.000-07:002007-10-11T09:20:00.000-07:00Well, a lot of us enjoy getting out and visiting o...Well, a lot of us enjoy getting out and visiting other cities, seeing old friends, etc. To get travel funding, you need to be in the program (at most places). <BR/><BR/>I think it is a useful strategy to use conferences as a way to force deadlines upon yourself to get things written. Of course, that shouldn't restrict you: you should never force yourself to wait for a conference if you have the ability to write a paper earlier. But most of us are procrastinators who need deadlines.<BR/><BR/>And I agree with several other posters: you should only begin to work on conference papers that you intend to publish eventually. Of course, some of them simply won't pan out into anything publishable and some of them may take years of re-writes before they finally become publishable, but you should always start with the goal of a publication. (And keep in mind: many authors don't necessarily list the conferences where a published paper was presented in the author's notes, so just scanning journal articles may produce a misleading result).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-90103371598311701442007-10-10T20:06:00.000-07:002007-10-10T20:06:00.000-07:00This discussion is so strange -- you use a confere...This discussion is so strange -- you use a conference to impose a deadline on a project you intend to work on and publish eventually. I don't understand why anyone would write a paper just to attend a conference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-32344248325959831652007-10-10T19:25:00.000-07:002007-10-10T19:25:00.000-07:0010/10 1:00 is absolutely right. You should never ...10/10 1:00 is absolutely right. You should never write anything that you don't intend to publish. Why waste the time? The professional payoff from a not-for-later-publication conference paper is zero. I've presented lots of conference papers, but I have never done one since I was a pre-dissertation graduate student that is not either published or still in my queue of things to revise for publication. Sometimes the papers have to go through more than one--or two or five--iterations at conferences and journals before I get them right, but it has always happened eventually. (So far, anyway.) If you want to get your ideas into print, you have to be willing to keep working on them long after it stops being fun.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-38704905101835529242007-10-10T13:00:00.000-07:002007-10-10T13:00:00.000-07:00I have never written a conference paper that I did...I have never written a conference paper that I did not revisit later and send to a journal or include in a book project. Now, about 2 of them (out of 15+) have never ended up published in any form (book or journal)--though it's not for lack of trying. They just keep getting rejected. <BR/><BR/>I would never write a conference paper that I didn't intend on at least trying to publish. It puzzles me that anyone would. Time is such a precious resource that I can't imagine wasting it on a paper that I wouldn't invest at least a little more time in to get published somewhere. <BR/><BR/>Of course, my strategy requires that you admit that not every idea or paper is IO/APSR worthy, which for some grad students (and even faculty) is apparently taboo. I don't subscribe to the "published in a lower tier journal is worse than not published at all" mentality of some people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-77904738928320454492007-10-10T11:56:00.000-07:002007-10-10T11:56:00.000-07:00Oh, the waiting. The cursed waiting!Oh, the waiting. The cursed waiting!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-91696297400156787972007-10-10T11:31:00.000-07:002007-10-10T11:31:00.000-07:00Journal articles I've seen that reference an earli...Journal articles I've seen that reference an earlier life as a conference paper either seem to have been to more than one conference (meaning the authors consciously used the conference to workshop the paper, not to network or be a tourist), or seem to have been presented at a small, selective conference that you have to be invited to participate in. I would imagine the large majority of conference papers are dead and buried by the time the authors are on the plane home, but I could be wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-34920465628364184172007-10-10T05:25:00.000-07:002007-10-10T05:25:00.000-07:00This isn't "exactly" a job-market question, but it...This isn't "exactly" a job-market question, but it follows from the APSA, ISA thread above.<BR/><BR/>There's a lot of talk about "quality" at these things.<BR/><BR/>Obviously the blog isn't the best place to get a decent sample, but guesstimating -- how many conference presentations become successful (i.e., published) journal articles? In other words, does the "quality" matter?<BR/><BR/>For myself, I've done about a dozen conferences and two papers have gone on in life -- the rest disappeared down the memory hole (or the memory stick, to be more precise).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-32401287761689966482007-10-09T13:42:00.000-07:002007-10-09T13:42:00.000-07:00Any opinions on how important is a call from the c...Any opinions on how important is a call from the candidate's adviser (all other things being equal)?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-69456096851499961952007-10-09T09:03:00.000-07:002007-10-09T09:03:00.000-07:00Re: 6:20I just tried a test edit of the Wiki and i...Re: 6:20<BR/><BR/>I just tried a test edit of the Wiki and it seems to be working fine for me as of Tuesday afternoon (I then re-edited to remove the test line).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-53918206273749781022007-10-09T06:20:00.000-07:002007-10-09T06:20:00.000-07:00Wiki seems to be having a problem. I and others ha...Wiki seems to be having a problem. I and others have attempted to update, at which point it says it is already being updated, yet no updates appear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11904284.post-42288866827349065522007-10-08T19:15:00.000-07:002007-10-08T19:15:00.000-07:00does anyone have any idea what the process is for ...does anyone have any idea what the process is for applying for b-schools or policy schools. i am a member of apsa and have seen a little up there, but am aware that i'm missing a lot of stuff.<BR/><BR/>any ideas???Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com